Investing in 80 startups with SB21 Business Angel Robert Maier

Robin Haak: Hello, Robbi. It's great to chat with you today. I’d like to start by going back to your time at Visual Meta. Why did you decide to step away from the company you founded in 2018?

Robert Maier: I founded Visual Meta and was with the company for 10 years, which in the startup world is quite a long time. At that point, I felt like I needed something new. In terms of daily routines, I had the sense that it was time for a change. It wasn’t an easy step—I was kind of "married" to Visual Meta for many years. I spent most of my waking hours with the company, so it was obviously an intense and successful time. But after 10 years, I felt it was the right moment to hand over responsibility to someone else.

You grew the company to over €10 million in net profit, operating in 15 countries with 300 employees, so it was a success…

It wasn’t a unicorn, but it was a healthy, profitable company. We were profitable from the second year onwards. In 2011, we sold a majority stake to Axel Springer, through their subsidiary Idealo, just a few years after founding the company. They were very interested in digital EBITDA businesses, so it was a great fit. Even after the sale, we retained entrepreneurial freedom, and my co-founder Johannes Schaback and I stayed with the company for many years.

So even after selling the majority stake, you stayed on with the company?

Yes, I still owned around 10% of the company and continued running it as if it were entirely my own. The founders of Idealo, who we mainly worked with, had a similar setup when Axel Springer acquired them—they retained roughly 25% of the shares. We replicated a similar structure, and it worked out very well. Everything was friendly and cooperative. I gave them over a year’s notice before officially stepping away at the end of 2018. I was also involved in hiring the new managing directors. We onboarded the first additional managing director in 2015, and then another one later on. Johannes actually left Visual Meta earlier in 2018, so by the time I left, the two new managing directors were already well-acquainted with the company and ready to lead.

You’ve said before that you really enjoyed working with colleagues from more than 40 countries. What is it about working in such an international team that excites you?

It’s the many different perspectives—it was a very enriching experience. When we founded Visual Meta, we signed the first contract in December 2008, just two months after Lehman Brothers went bust. That was right at the peak of the financial crisis. At the time, many young people from across Europe were coming to Germany because it was still doing relatively well compared to other countries. In places like Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Eastern Europe, youth unemployment rates were incredibly high.

We welcomed talent from all over, and we were one of the first startups in Germany that didn’t require German language skills. We said, “Hey, let’s speak English,” and English became the company’s primary language almost from the beginning. One of our earliest developers was from India and didn’t speak a word of German, but it was perfectly fine. That diversity of backgrounds and perspectives made the work really fun and innovative.

And then in 2019, you ran for Parliament with the SPD?

No, actually. I’ve been a member of the Social Democratic Party (SPD), which is currently the party of Chancellor Olaf Scholz. In 2019, the leader of the SPD stepped down, and most of the candidates for leadership at the time were from the far left of the party.

The SPD is generally a left-leaning party, but I didn’t want it to move even further left within its leadership. When I saw only far-left candidates running, I decided to step in—not because I thought I’d win, but to make a point. I wanted to represent members of the party who were more centrist and willing to consider both left and right viewpoints. That’s when people thought I was entering politics, but it wasn’t the case. I didn’t win, and it wasn’t about becoming a member of Parliament—it was just a leadership position within the SPD.

Still, it’s an interesting step—from co-founder and managing director to dipping your toes into politics, right?

I’ve always been highly interested in politics, and I think it’s something founders should pay more attention to. There are so many fields where founders and startups are directly impacted by decisions in politics. For example, with Visual Meta we were part of a formal complaint at the European Commission against Google’s monopolistic practices.

Google Shopping was a competing product to ours, and we felt Google was giving preferential treatment to their own platform while demoting ours and others on their search result pages. If someone searched for a product, Google Shopping would appear at the top, and our product wouldn’t show up at all. Together with others, we filed a complaint, and the European Commission fined Google about €2.5 billion—the highest fine ever at that time. This year, the European courts upheld that decision, confirming the Commission was right.

Cases like this show how politics and regulation can directly influence businesses. Unfortunately, startups and founders often don’t engage politically or communicate with decision-makers. Politicians and bureaucrats, especially at the European level, need to understand how their policies and regulations impact startups.

You were also part of setting up the SPD Economic Forum…

Yeah, exactly. That was nine years ago, in 2015. There had been many attempts before to create something independent but still officially close to the Social Democratic Party. It’s often been said that the SPD isn’t friendly toward the economy, and what we wanted to make clear, together with the other initiators, is that there’s a lot the SPD does that is actually good for the economy. It makes much more sense to talk to each other rather than about each other.

This is why we set it up, and it’s entirely financed independently of the Social Democratic Party. It operates completely independently of the SPD. It has grown significantly since, and is still running. I’m still a member, even though I’m no longer in a permanent position. I think they’re doing a lot of interesting events and formats to support exchanges between businesses, the economy, and politics.

Going back a bit—you mentioned coming from a political family, how did that shape your politics?

Both my parents were deeply interested in politics. My mom was a member of the Bundestag, the German Parliament, for many years, so I grew up in a very politically engaged household. My dad didn’t hold any official political positions, but he was also highly engaged and supported my mom wherever he could. That environment shaped me—I guess you could say I inherited my interest in politics from them.

And then, how did you end up in the world of Venture Capital?

That just happened. I mean, obviously, I founded and ran a startup, so I had a lot of touchpoints with investors. When I earned my first money, I also started investing in startups myself. So, one thing led to another, right? Over the years, I’ve probably invested in about 80 startups. Most of them needed follow-on financing and so on, so I got to know many people in the VC world. You meet them over and over again, and it’s just a fun topic.

You also worked at HV Capital for a while, right? They’re huge investors with big names in Germany—SumUp, FlixBus, Zalando, and many others. What was your experience like working at a fund versus now, working more independently?

I’ve known the team at HV Capital for many years, and we’d already worked on other projects together. After I left Visual Meta, we thought it would be a good match for me to join them as a partner. There were a couple of reasons why it only lasted a year, but everything was totally friendly. I’ve invested in their funds and so on. It’s all good.

I started in April 2020, right at the beginning of the COVID crisis. Then, our third child was born in October 2020, so there were a lot of things happening all at once.

And one thing I realized is that I enjoy investing my own money and having complete freedom in my decisions. Even as a general partner in a VC firm, you can make decisions, but you still have to report to your investors and justify those decisions. What I love doing is deciding entirely on my own—in the end, which startup or founding team I want to invest in. If it works out, great. If it doesn’t, that’s okay too. I don’t need to write 10-page investment memos or reports. That’s just not my style.

Interesting. And how did this realization shape your investment approach moving forward?

Well, with everything going on—COVID, kindergartens being closed, two other kids at home, and a newborn—it just made sense to say, after a year, “Hey, I think I’ll focus on my individual investments again.” But as I mentioned, I’m still an LP in their fund, and we have a great relationship. We still do deals together and so on.

So, you decided to go solo at a point when you had all of your kids at home?

I mean, I’d already done a lot of angel investing before, right? But back then, I always had a regular job and did startup investments on the side. Now, I don’t have a fund. You are a solo GP, Robin. You have a fund and take money from others. I only invest the little money I have—at least part of that—into startups.

It’s more or less a one-man show, except for my involvement in SB21, which is a business angel group. We’re 10-plus close friends, mostly from university, and we share deals before we invest. We often look at startups together, but it’s very informal. There’s no structure or joint vehicle—everyone invests their own money through their own vehicles. But we share every single deal with the group. That’s basically how it works.

It sounds like a great setup—having a good network but still calling the shots yourself. What’s your favorite thing about investing in startups, and what stage do you like to invest in?

Usually, I invest rather early—pre-seed or seed. Sometimes Series A, but that’s more the exception. I love being in touch with innovative and driven people who are starting something new. It also allows me to stay at the forefront of technological developments and innovation. I get to see new ideas early and meet people who are driven to make them happen. That’s what I really like about it.

What do you think sets you apart as a business angel?

I don’t know if this would set me apart, but I’ve been an entrepreneur myself and I’ve done it all—worked in operations, founded a startup, scaled it. I’ve made many mistakes but also learned a lot, and that’s always interesting or relevant for founders. They get someone they can use as a sparring partner to talk about different topics—different stages, financing questions, etc.

Obviously, I also invest money. I’m not the kind of business angel who says, “Give me shares, and I’ll be your sparring partner.” My investments range from as little as €10,000 up to €400,000 per ticket, depending on the stage and what’s needed. On average, the ticket size is around €50,000, but it really depends on the startup and its needs. The question is all about how much does the startup need? What stage is it in?

And then, of course, there’s my network—to VCs, other investors, and business angels. But I’m a hands-off business angel. I don’t sit in the office with a startup one day a week. We invest in founder teams we believe know what they’re doing. At the same time, whenever there’s something to discuss or they have questions, I’m approachable. Sometimes I’ll talk to a founder daily during a financing round, and then we might not talk for three months. It depends.

What is it you look for in a startup? What makes you think, “This is it. I’m going to invest”?

First of all, I need to like the founding team. I want to enjoy communicating and collaborating with them. I also want them to be passionate about what they’re doing. For example, when we built a shopping comparison site, it was a great market opportunity, but was it my absolute passion? No. Still, I poured hours and hours into it. But if I could choose, I’d always prefer founders to work on something that truly means something to them—whether it’s for society, the environment, or whatever. It makes the journey easier and more rewarding. That said, chasing business opportunities is also valid.

It’s about scalability. I usually don’t go for niche products that might max out at a few million in revenue. Since I’m investing at an early stage, I don’t need every investment to return hundreds of millions like a VC fund does. If I invest at a €3 million valuation and the company grows to a €50 million valuation, that’s still great for me.

What drives you?

Well, we haven’t really touched on this, but I try to spend a lot of time with my family. My kids are nine, seven, and four years old. We recently moved from Berlin back to the Rhine Valley, where I have my office in Bonn, the city where I was born. My wife is from Aachen, so it’s a bit of a homecoming for both of us. I call the area the “Extended Rhine Valley.” I love spending time with my family—driving the kids to dancing lessons or soccer practice, watching their matches. Our youngest is still small, so there’s a lot of hands-on parenting.

I also enjoy investing, and if I had more time, I’d like to engage more in politics. Nothing is planned right now, but it’s something I might explore in the future.

What would spending more time in politics look like for you?

I would try to change things that I don't like in politics and focus on topics that I feel need addressing. For instance, migration policies in Europe. I absolutely support helping people in need, but uncontrolled migration is putting pressure on our systems—schools, housing, you name it. For example, there are reports that some kids can't participate in physical education anymore because the gyms are packed with refugees. Obviously, there are many real refugees, but I think we have many people who come because of the better economic potential they see. This is understandable, but it's just not something that we can provide to hundreds of millions of people. And this creates resentment, driving voters toward extremist parties, which is dangerous for our democracies.

Another area is economic policies. Bureaucracy is a huge issue. For example, when I was running Visual Meta, GDPR was introduced, and it was so complicated. Building and construction regulations are also becoming stricter, which makes it harder to solve housing shortages. We need to streamline these processes. We have way too few houses and flats and apartments in Germany and many other countries and yet the rules for building are becoming stricter and stricter - both on a national level but also on a European level, which is hindering the economy.

And then there’s defense policy. Since Russia invaded Ukraine, it’s clear Europe needs to become more independent, especially from the U.S. We need innovation and investment in defense tech—not just to make money, but to ensure long-term peace. And yeah… if Trump agrees with Putin on a specific, let's call it settlement, Russia is very close to Central and Western Europe - and that doesn't feel good to me.

On the topic of defence, are you putting money into dual-use robotics and defense startups?

Yes, I am investing in defense and dual-use startups.

Do you see it as a high-growth industry?

I think it’s a high-growth industry, but more than that, it’s about building up these structures, independent of whether they’ll ever return money to me. We need to become more innovative and independent in the entire defense tech space. I think you can earn money there, but I still hope we find peace in Ukraine and that Putin withdraws. That would obviously be bad for my defense investments, but regardless, it’s the right thing to do.

In the long run, we’ll only have peace if each side is too scared to invade. It seems like Russia wasn’t scared enough anymore to invade another country. This is also something I see differently from many other social democrats, even though it was a Social Democratic chancellor who introduced what we call the "NATO Double-Track Decision." This meant NATO heavily invested in weapons while significantly increasing diplomatic efforts. That strategy ultimately contributed to the downfall of the Soviet Union and a long period of peace.

Yeah, and what do you think needs to change, at least in Europe and maybe in Germany, to support startups and innovation?

In general, we need a lot more money in the sector. We have massive capital holders, like the big German insurance companies, but they aren’t allowed or don’t want to deploy sufficient amounts into venture capital and private equity. We need a lot more liquidity in the market.

We saw what happened when money was so cheap in 2019, 2020, and 2021—it boosted innovation. Yes, in boom cycles, some money goes to less viable ideas, but that’s part of the process. Only by funding broadly will we also fund great things. If you look at Asia and the U.S., the amounts flowing into startups are far higher. This is still a major gap in Europe.

Yeah, I agree. So, shifting gears—what gives you balance in life when you’re not thinking about big political topics or investing?

I do a lot of sports, and that’s always great for me. I also love spending time with my family. Although, as any parent knows, little kids can make it harder to feel balanced. Most of the time, though, I enjoy it. My kids are nine, seven, and four, and we live in the Rhine Valley, just outside Bonn. It’s a beautiful countryside area, and I enjoy being outdoors with our dog. We have a very beautiful countryside here and I love nature.

Thanks so much for your time, Robbi—what an amazing conversation.

Thanks, Robin. It’s been great talking with you!